🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

matze@isle8.uber.space

Ort:: Berlin, Berlin Deutschland

Geschlecht:: Male

bug report: PHP Warning openstreetmap

Berlin, Deutschland, Tue, 27 Nov 2018 13:03:30 +0100

!Hubzilla Development !Hubzilla Support Forum
My cronjob
/usr/bin/php Zotlabs/Daemon/Master.php
send me an email about a PHP warning:

PHP Warning:  A non-numeric value encountered in /var/www/virtual/isle8/html/addon/openstreetmap/openstreetmap.php on line 144

I don't know enough about the sourcecode to fix it and it might not be important. I just wanted to report it in case somebody is interested.

(I run hubzilla 3.8.5.)

Jacque Fresco on attitude towards life, love of live as the most important basic skill to teach at school

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Berlin, Deutschland, Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:16:16 +0100

Jacque Fresco - Obsolete Values & Myths of the Past (Scrolling Transcript)
vonThe Venus ProjectamYouTube

#Jacque Fresco #Civilizing #Wellbeing

Civilizing

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Berlin, Deutschland, Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:53:07 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:22:10 +0100

Mike Macgirvin wrote the following post Wed, 07 Nov 2018 10:05:21 +1100

BEGIN { Hubzilla 4.0 }
!Hubzilla Support Forum !Hubzilla Announcements

We're about to launch into a heavy construction phase of the Red project (which will directly impact the Hubzilla project). I'm sending this post to folks connected with the Hubzilla project as a heads up. What you will ultimately come to know as Hubzilla 4.0 is being worked on right now and involves hundreds of thousands of lines of changed code from the current Hubzilla releases.

What this means to you

If you have a site which is running the Hubzilla 'dev' code branch and you are not a developer or you are running a production hub on development code, STOP any automatic updates NOW. Do not update again until the next RC (release candidate). Stability will not return for another month or two. Things are going to break. I cannot stop integrating code to deal with broken stuff on your site. If you can't troubleshoot and fix it, you should not be running 'dev' code. We've had a relatively stable 'dev' code tree for a few years and many people have gotten complacent that any issues could be fixed easily and quickly - and this is about to change in a big way.

What's happening

Hubzilla's underlying protocol 'zot' is about to receive its largest update since 2012. The latest release is Zot6. This affects Hubzilla in literally thousands of ways. There are a number of current features and behaviours which have changed or are no longer available in Zot6.

Diaspora is completely incompatible with Zot6. We will do everything in our power to preserve connectivity to that network, even though at this time I don't have a solution for how exactly to accomplish this. Diaspora is incompatible with ActivityStreams and Zot6 is built on ActivityStreams. Don't fret. It's not going away. I'm somewhat confident that we'll find a compatibility solution in the next month or two, although it's very likely it won't be very efficient. Since Diaspora actually doesn't federate with anything (other projects federate with it), it will be on us to find a workable solution.
Mail. Zot6 does not support 'mail' as a separate messaging system. Private messages are sent as private messages, not as 'mail'. We will do our best to create an interface to display these separately from your normal stream. Some will be surprised at this decision since I have fought it vehemently for years, but the simple truth is that mail as an interface has always gotten the short end of the stick and always falls behind the social stream in innovation and features and upgrades. Zot6 privacy is respectable and very well tested.
Reshares. In Zot6 as in many other networks, reshares are single click activities (much the same as a 'Like'). In older zot implementations a reshare is an embed of another post into your own post and commentary is permitted. It isn't clear yet how to resolve this discrepancy. We will be favouring the popular implementation over the older Hubzilla implementation, but we haven't yet decided how or if to migrate existing content. This is where other developers might have a chance to show their stuff. It's not much different than the email choice to "forward inline" vs. "forward as attachment". It would be nice to offer a choice, but I won't sugar coat it - it would be a fair chunk of work.
Permissions. In Hubzilla we reworked the entire permission system a year or two ago to make it more extensible. That was a major improvement, but it wasn't quite enough. Zot6 has a newer permission system that is much more flexible. As of this moment, we could go either way - keep the old one or move everything to the new one. I'm tempted to move everything forward, but this could delay the completion of the zot6 integration by a few weeks. At this moment, I'm saving that decision until I see how the rest of the migration goes. If we lose a month dealing with Diaspora quirks, I probably won't be able to update the permissions and we'll have to put that off until a later release.
Object encoding. The way post meta-information is encoded on disk in Hubzilla (an older variant of ActivityStreams) isn't compatible with ActivityStreams-JSON-LD which zot6 uses. Several metadata field names are different. Migrating existing content could take months to code and test and will most certainly involve up to several days of downtime on large sites, so this will not happen. We'll continue to store this metadata in the current format and translate it to the new format on the fly when required.

https://macgirvin.com/channel/mike/?f=&mid=0f6dfc0232b89627b7a63972c143fc62acfcdceafc9a723a94b98fc0b3a16134@macgirvin.com

Communication-Software

How should a very private channel look like to the public?

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Berlin, Deutschland, Fri, 02 Nov 2018 19:03:31 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:22:53 +0100

!Hubzilla Support Forum
When the permission to see the standard-profile is not set to public, I can still see the avatar image and the name of the channel, when I'm not logged in.

I think, it would be more appropriate to show something like
"Either there is no channel under this address or you don't have permission to see it."
without an avatar image or name.

Survey:
- agree : The avatar image and name SHOULD NOT appear.
- disagree : The avatar image and name SHOULD appear.

#hubzilla

Update:

I got some informations about that the avatar image and name in the default profile are not really protected anyway and thus should not be hidden to public
And since multiple profiles solve this issue, I'm not really bothered about it any more and thus consider this question for me to be answered

Communication-Software

mehr anzeigen 26 Kommentare

M. Dent

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 19:13:02 +0100

The "default" profile is always able to be seen by anyone on the Internet.

Of course, there is no requirement that the default profile contain any accurate information.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 20:42:41 +0100

But in the permission-settings is an option for "Can view my default channel profile" !?

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:01:52 +0100

I tested it.
"Can view my default channel profile" is basically controlling the standard profile, but not the avatar-image and the channel-name.

In my case the edit-profile-page says
"This is your default profile.
Visible to approved connections."

M. Dent

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:07:29 +0100

Ah missed that option, sorry.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:09:09 +0100

no problem @M. Dent

Mario Vavti

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:35:47 +0100

The default profiles image and name are always public. If you need a profile which you only show to a certain group of connectione, you can enable multiple profiles in the profile settings and assign it to this group.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 22:51:22 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 02 Nov 2018 22:56:48 +0100

Yes, that's a solution, @Mario Vavti.

But I wrote this post/survey, because it intuitively seems a bit more appropriate to me to be able to create a channel, that is invisible in every way.

And since your solution exists, it is not a very important issue.

M. Dent

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 01:01:56 +0100

There is no way to make a channel completely invisible. The fact that it doesn't show up on the screen hides the fact that that data is available to anyone who has the ability to spin up an instance of Hubzilla. All someone has to do is know your channel exists and they can pull in the Default/Standard data.

Of course, they can only get the DEFAULT/Standard profile info unless you grant a user on that hub access to something else. But anyone with Internet access can get access to your default/standard profile.

Hiding it from the web interface would simply be giving users a false sense of security.

Martin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 01:57:59 +0100

@Mario Vavti How do I enable multiple profiles in the profile settings? I can't find such an option there. I can see that I can create another channel but that's not really what you meant I think? It sounds rather neat if it's possible to have another profile with a profile picture that you only show to specific connections

M. Dent

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 03:32:36 +0100

Make sure it's allowed on the hub: /admin/features (then look under Profiles)
Then, enable it on your account: /settings/profiles

I honestly don't remember the UI path off the top of my head (sorry). But those links should take you where you need to go.

Mario Vavti

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 09:00:18 +0100

From the panel channel menu select edit profile then click the settings icon (the small cog).

Or use the link @M. Dent provided.

Oberförster

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 09:21:49 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 03 Nov 2018 09:23:50 +0100

The hub: https://a.mindblast.space now supports multiple profiles

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 19:22:46 +0100

@M. Dent
I think I understand a bit better now.
And since multiple profiles are good enough to hide a name and avatar image, I think we can close this issue. It's not very important.
I just started this post, because I didn't quite understand, why they are visible.
Thanks to all participants

Martin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 19:40:50 +0100

Strange... I am sure I wrote a reply in here before but now it is gone. Anyway, I enabled multiple profiles and created a new profile under this current channel of mine. I gave a new name and profile picture for the new profile and added another test channel of mine running in another webbrowser so it should be able to see this new profile. However this channel looks exactly the same. I only see the default profile and the default profile picture.

that I run in another webbrowser (rather necessary if you want to be able to figure out different privacy settings.

Mario Vavti

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 19:55:32 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 03 Nov 2018 19:57:15 +0100

@Martin you need to assign this contact your new (not default) profile.
This is in Connections > Edit > Profile Assign IIRC

M. Dent

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 19:56:41 +0100

Once you added your original channel as a connection to the new test channel, did you change which profile was assigned to be viewed by the test channel? Or did you leave it as the default? (Which would be the "default"/"Standard" profile in most circumstances)

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:10:39 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:11:39 +0100

Strange... I am sure I wrote a reply in here before but now it is gone.

I can see the following reply of yours:

Martin
about 18 hours ago
@Mario Vavti How do I enable multiple profiles in the profile settings? I can't find such an option there. I can see that I can create another channel but that's not really what you meant I think? It sounds rather neat if it's possible to have another profile with a profile picture that you only show to specific connections

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:16:34 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:17:56 +0100

@Martin
I had a similar problem.
I had a conversation with a few people in the comment section.
And after a while new comments appeared somewhere in between the already existing comments.
But these comments were not mine.

It seemed like the server didn't update fast enough.

Mario Vavti

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:19:12 +0100

I am sure I wrote a reply in here before but now it is gone.

Did you possibly delete it by accident?

Martin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 20:58:53 +0100

@Mario Vavti As far as I can see the contact is assigned the new profile called "Secret test profile", i.e. not the default "Default Profile". And as far as I can see you can do that assignment in two different places. Either

Hamburger | Connections | Edit box beside a specific connection | Section "Set profile" | Then choose profile in the combobox

or

Edit Profiles | Edit visibility | Then click on the profiles under "All Connections" that you want to add to the "Visible To"-section.

Currently @Mario Vavti and my other own contact is in the "Visible To"-section and if it is working they should see a profile picture with programming code instead of the default profile picture I have and also a different name than "Martin".

"@Martin you need to assign this contact your new (not default) profile.
This is in Connections > Edit > Profile Assign IIRC"

Mario Vavti

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:03:27 +0100

@Martin if i go to your profile i see the image with code and "Secret test profile" as your name.

Martin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:03:49 +0100

@Mario Vavti I don't think I have deleted it by accident by I can't be completely sure. How do I quote text when replying? I see you seem to have done that. I can't find any qoute alternative.

Mario Vavti

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:06:06 +0100

Use the quote button of your editor or start by typing "[q"

Martin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:09:53 +0100

@Mario Vavti I'm sorry. My mistake. It's been working all the time. It was because I have two channels on the other id or whatever it should be called. I mean you can have several channels under the same login and I was in the wrong channel when checking this new profile... Sorry. I really like the amount of options in Hubzilla but it takes some time to learn

Martin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:11:32 +0100

Use the quote button of your editor or start by typing "[q"

Great!

Mario Vavti

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 21:16:15 +0100

id or whatever it should be called

We call it account.

What does "Can administer my channel resources." mean?

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Berlin, Deutschland, Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:27:34 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:23:14 +0100

!Hubzilla Support Forum
I'm trying to figure out, what "Can administer my channel resources." means.

I don't yet see a difference between activating it or not.

What I can do in both cases:
- add file (I see the button)
- add photo (I see the button)
- add a post
(I'm aware, that there are separate settings for these permissions. I'm just listing them here to show, where I'm looking for differences coming from the "Can administer my channel resources." permission.)

What I can't do in both cases:
- add an event to the calendar
- find a way to access the settings of the other channel

So: What are the differences between activating that permission and not activating it?

#hubzilla

Update:

As far as I understand it doesn't make a difference, if you connect channels from the same account.
It makes a difference, when you connect channels from different accounts

Communication-Software

mehr anzeigen 6 Kommentare

Hubzilla.EU Announcments

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 19:54:30 +0100

When you create a channel for example as a forum you better create this channel with an independend account. Then you're able to assign other channel as administrators for this channel. They should be able to accept friendshiprequests and should also be able to grant or revoke permissions.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 20:49:40 +0100

I can do this with different channels in the same account.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:20:29 +0100

Or do I miss something?

What do you mean by "better"? Is it just better or necessary?

And by "administrator" you mean: activating all permissions, right?

Mike Macgirvin

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 02:45:41 +0100

This gives somebody else the ability to administer your channel. You can already administer your channel.

What can they do? Pretty much anything except access your account settings (so they can't change your password or delete your channel or something like that). I don't remember if they can change your profile. They can post as you, upload, create events, comment on posts you receive, moderate comments, delete comments, make friends, and change permissions of friends.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 05:22:44 +0100

Does "somebody else" mean somebody with a different channel or somebody with a different account?

I did not try a different account.

poVoq

Sat, 03 Nov 2018 06:12:48 +0100

Any other connection. But obviously if you tried it with the same account than you can't see a difference as that account already has those permissions as the channel owner.
This feature is meant for channels that work as a forum or similar which are to be administered by multiple persons.

[Solved] Bug?: comment/like/dislike/ on my stream, but not on home-channel of post

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 18:15:36 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:23:43 +0100

!Hubzilla Support Forum

Sometimes I can comment/like/dislike/..., when I see a post on my stream, but I can't, when I go to the channel, where the post was posted (e.g. goggleplus.online/channel/mark).

Is that intentional, does it depend on the privacy configuration or is it a bug?

If it is intentional: Why would it make sense?

#hubzilla #bug

-------------------------------
Update:
It is no bug.

@M. Dent gave me the answer I was looking for:

#^Bug?: comment/like/dislike/ on my stream, but not on home-channel of post -

Communication-Software

mehr anzeigen 39 Kommentare

Giacomino

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 18:54:38 +0100

probably just because you have not been authenticated on those pages.

Max Kostikov

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 18:56:45 +0100

Likes, dislikes, smiles and few other posting oprions are depends on hub configuration. Hub admin can enable or disable thats why you see such behaviour.

Giacomino

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:10:34 +0100

for example I'm in your page and authenticated, I can comment like .....
but I have authentication problems in the Mark page

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:17:41 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:19:35 +0100

I know the basics of privacy permission settings, but why can I do these things in #^https://isle8.uber.space/network and not on the exact same posts being on the page of the other channel?

E.g. I liked the following post via #^https://isle8.uber.space/network

cb7f604332cf39 schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Wed, 31 Oct 2018 16:50:34 +0100

!Hubzilla Support Forum
channel move / clone from Hubzilla (Zot5) to Osada (Zot6) - is it already possible?
What's best practice?
- via file?
- or online?
- or still not ready?

Who made already some experiences?

https://hubzilla.eu/channel/cb7f604332cf39/&mid=3321787c23144a28981337373de31f8250ed1d50d5a2bc19b83d322075141cb4@hubzilla.eu

but on

cb7f604332cf39

cb7f604332cf39@hubzilla.eu

https://hubzilla.eu/channel/cb7f604332cf39

I don't get a thumbs up button, although I am authenticated.

Mario Vavti

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:25:47 +0100

@Matze do you see your profile image in the panel when visiting @cb7f604332cf39's channel?

If not, authentication failed for some reason and you will not have any permissions there...

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:33:44 +0100

Yes, I can see it, I'm authenticated, and I've seen the message saying, what protocol was used, but I don't remember the protocol.

In my other example goggleplus.online/channel/mark I was not authenticated automatically.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:35:40 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:36:42 +0100

... and the strange thing is, that I am able to like on #^https://isle8.uber.space/network, as if I was authenticated for a certain post on #^https://isle8.uber.space/network, but not on the post-channel-page page, where the post was posted, although I was authenticated.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:38:45 +0100

Do you see the like button on

cb7f604332cf39

cb7f604332cf39@hubzilla.eu

https://hubzilla.eu/channel/cb7f604332cf39
?

cb7f604332cf39

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:43:40 +0100

Well,
goggleplus.online is a different server, different story. Guess the server has a problem, cause remote auth does'nt work propper.
@Mark Thomas should have a look into the logfiles, what's going wrong.

Max Kostikov

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:47:23 +0100

Do you see the like button on

No.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:51:39 +0100

Can you see the like button, when you see one of the posts in your stream ("/network")?

If you are not connected to that channel, maybe you find one of the posts in the public stream.

Max Kostikov

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:00:56 +0100

@Matze yes and I wrote you above why so.

Mario Vavti

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:07:47 +0100

@Matze i see all buttons and can comment when i visit @cb7f604332cf39's channel.

Mike Macgirvin

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:12:39 +0100

Is that intentional, does it depend on the privacy configuration or is it a bug?

It usually depends on the privacy configuration. There is *possibly* a bug but I'm more interested in answering the next question.

If it is intentional: Why would it make sense?

Not everybody has the same privacy expectations or requirements. The problem with a "one size fits all" solution to privacy (as practised by nearly every other service on the internet) is that it isn't valid. Everybody has different needs and requirements. A lack of permission to do something is no more than that person not desiring that you be able to do something with *their* property. It's not your channel. You don't get to decide.

On your channel, you get to decide who can do what. And your decision is final.

Imagine for a moment that you're a hot (for lack of a better word) woman. Many will not show their face in social networks because they get harassed for sex endlessly. Any place on the service that allows somebody to communicate with them is used to try and coerce them into having a "date". Consequently they will often have completely different privacy requirements than you. They need to be able to keep out the riff-raff and dick pics if they want to be able to communicate with their friends and family.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:13:05 +0100

OK, Thanks so far.

Do you have a connection or approved connection with this channel?

Mario Vavti

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:16:20 +0100

Yes, i am connected wit that channel.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:17:11 +0100

@Mike Macgirvin
I agree, and understand the purpose of diversity and control over permissions.

But what I'm confused about, is that I can do something with the SAME post on /network , which I can't do on the channel page of the post (not my channel).

Mario Vavti

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:21:47 +0100

I had a look at your profile and see what is going on. You connected with @cb7f604332cf39 but he/she did not (yet) approve your connection (note the no entry sign at the profile image at your connections page). That means you probably do not have permission to like or comment on his posts.

Remains the question why you had permission to do so at your stream...

Giacomino

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:23:51 +0100

"But what I'm confused about, is that I can do something with the SAME post on /network , which I can't do on the channel page of the post (not my channel). "
if you are authenticated then yes, there is some problem.
But also you need to see if is a 'forum post' or not, because sometimes the permissions change with respect to the page of the creator of the post.

Mario Vavti

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:23:54 +0100

Oh, i see why. You got the message via the @Hubzilla Support Forum support forum which you are connected with.

So, everything works as expected...

cb7f604332cf39

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:24:26 +0100

Now I approved the connection.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:25:53 +0100

I just did that a few minutes ago, to see, if something changes, but it's still the same.

And as I wrote in my last comment to @Mike Macgirvin :

But what I'm confused about, is that I can do something with the SAME post on /network , which I can't do on the channel page of the post (not my channel).

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:32:23 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:39:19 +0100

OK, now it makes a little bit more sense.
I see the like button on @Hubzilla Support Forum.

So:
Is it correct, that the post is stored on @cb7f604332cf39
and the like-click on @Hubzilla Support Forum ?

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:48:28 +0100

... and posting with "!<channelname>" into e.g. @Hubzilla Support Forum kind of overrides the permissions of the creator of the post, e.g. for liking.

right?

M. Dent

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:59:01 +0100

There are 2 separate concepts to keep track of. (1) The post "owner", (2) the post "author".

With normal posts sent by a channel these are typically the same.

The exception to this is with FORUM posts. On a post where a person uses the single !mention format to include a forum that allows them to "Forward to all my contacts using the !mention", things behave a little differently and quickly gets confusing. Some people will actually receive the post directly from the sender (the owner and author will match) and other people will receive the post THROUGH the Forum (the owner will be the Forum, the author will be the author).

So... when a post is received THROUGH a Forum, the owner and the author are different. The FORUM is the owner when a post is received through a forum. The poster is the author when a post is received directly from the author.

Permissions to like/comment/etc, are based on the OWNER of the post (not the author).

Since a FORUM is for discussion, and not every participant is necessarily a "friend"/connection with every other participant - if you have received it through the forum, it is likely you will have the ability to comment/etc. because if you are a member of the forum, and so it is likely you have permission to do so.

But if you go to the original author's page, you may not - especially if you are not one of their connections or if they have restricted who can post on their page.

BUT, because those who receive it through the forum send their replies to the forum and the forum forwards replies to the original author - it is likely that your replies WILL show up on the original author's wall/post on their own hub.

There are some edge cases beyond these that could result in very strange combinations of things, but there are no fool proof ways to easily resolve them.

You may notice that recently, more and more people are using the !!Mention notation. This behaves a little differently (and is easier to make sense of.) If I recall/understand correctly -- on a post tagged with a !!Mention of a forum, the message flows ONLY through the forum - so there really aren't 2 paths to worry about. You may still have the "can't reply on the original author's page, but can reply to the forum page or on my own /network page" problem, but other messy combinations of pathways don't exist (again, that's my recollection, maybe @Mike Macgirvin can confirm/deny it).

Mario Vavti

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 21:00:52 +0100

The items are federated between the hubs and stored on every hub the channel is connected with...

When a post is posted to a forum via bang-mention the forum creates it's own copy of the post with its own permissions...

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 21:22:25 +0100

Thanks a lot @M. Dent.
That is exactly, what I was looking for.
great answer.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Wed, 31 Oct 2018 21:35:50 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 21:50:59 +0100

@cb7f604332cf39
I just recieved your comments. I guess, my server took a bit more time than usual.

Your server is probably fine. @M. Dent gave me the answer I was looking for:

#^Bug?: comment/like/dislike/ on my stream, but not on home-channel of post -

It was my missing understanding for the difference between author and owner.

Antechinus

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 00:13:41 +0100

A different but related question: Let's assume I enable a contact to write directly to my channel page (ie, via "Connections -> Individual Permissions -> Can post on my wall"). What visibility/scope applies to their posts there? Will they be world-readable, or more restricted somehow by default? Who owns those posts? Who can comment on or like them?

Sorry for the broad newbie queries. I'm a little slow. Have only recently twigged that those red 'minus' icons in the connections grid might be related to this

Thanks in advance and feel free to direct me somewhere else if there's a more appropriate forum.

Mike Macgirvin

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 00:56:01 +0100

Let's assume I enable a contact to write directly to my channel page (ie, via "Connections -> Individual Permissions -> Can post on my wall").

What visibility/scope applies to their posts there? Will they be world-readable, or more restricted somehow by default?

They are sent with the default visibility of the channel on whose wall you posted. For many channels this is public, for some it is not. I don't believe the "guest" can change this visibility. (Several people have suggested ways to allow this over the years, but I don't believe they have been implemented. Then again I haven't been closely watching checkins for the last year or so and this may have changed.)

Who owns those posts?

The channel who owns the wall. The guest author *may* be able to delete posts they created.

Who can comment on or like them?

Anybody who is is allowed to comment on posts by the channel whose wall you are posting on.

craggers

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 01:14:08 +0100

Yes. I too wondered what the meaning of the red minus icon was. Still haven't figured it out??

Antechinus

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:22:39 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:24:04 +0100

Thanks for the response, @Mike Macgirvin, and for your patience. That all sounds very sane and reasonable. I'll run a few private tests and explore further. A fantastic infrastructure and culture you've developed here. Kudos and regards.

Antechinus

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:29:17 +0100

Thanks for your response @Mike Macgirvin, and for your patience. That all sounds very sane and reasonable. I'll run a few private tests and explore further. A fantastic infrastructure and culture you've developed here. Kudos and regards.

craggers

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 11:33:12 +0100

@Antechinus I can see and respond in the stream but can neither respond or like on your wall.

M. Dent

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 11:58:38 +0100

@craggers and that is as it should be in some circumstances.

M. Dent

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 12:34:35 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 12:40:25 +0100

Perhaps this will help.

We have been conditioned to think of a person's wall as that write-on/wipe-off board that college students put on the oustide of their dorm room door. That is to say, it is in a public place and anyone can write on it.

In Hubzilla, a person's "wall" is more like the note board/cork board combination that people put over the desk in their office. You need to be authorized to be in the office to have access to it.

But that isn't a problem because that board is not the only way to communicate as it generally is in other social media contexts. Hubzilla has many ways to create shared public/private/and semi-private shared spaces. So just like you may meet with your coworker in the forum of a meeting room or pass her in the hall and give her a copy of your presentation and she would take it back and pin it on her cork board - or if it's a confidential memo, she might put it in her desk drawer or locked file cabinet, on Hubzilla you can engage with someone in a shared space and they will have traces and artifacts in their private space.

Even if you created the memo or presentation, you would need to go to the shared space (hallway/conference room/whatever) to provide additional notes or make changes unless she gave you access to her office and permission to change or remove items on her cork board or in her file cabinet.

Hubzilla is like her personal secretary who has that permission. So when you stop in the public forum outside her office and give her secretary a note to attach to the presentation on her cork board, her secretary will do it. And people who walk into her office will see it on her cork board (i.e., "wall") but they do not have permission to make changes or additions to it. And neither do you even if you are in her office. Just like you won't see or have access to what she puts in the file cabinet.

Every analogy breaks down - and this one does in the technical details of HOW it happens. But this is a fairly accurate description of the visible effects of message passing in Hubzilla - at least in the circumstances that seem to be the basis of discussion on this thread.

You can see here the inherent privacy and access controls in action that are missing on other social networks. Privacy and access controls that we take for granted to create private and semi-public spaces in our real lives and create boundaries and allow and encourage civilized and respectful behavior. These boundaries and access controls only feel strange online because developers of the platforms we are used to were too lazy or too motivated by profit motive and speed to market or too interested in snooping and themselves having direct access to your data to build them into their platforms. Hubzilla is very different. The whole point and purpose of Hubzilla is to respect your privacy and give you tools and resources to set boundaries.

Other social media sites basically give you a big house with no barriers on the inside. So anyone who gets in the front door sees your bed, your toilet, your fridge, your TV, and everything else. When users demanded , thesome privacysort of privacy, the other platforms brought in those half-walls and partitons that are used on open floor plan office spaces to create "cubicles" - they kind of feel private, but they aren't really.

Hubzilla is a regular house with real barriers and lockable doors even on the inside. Mom can keep the kids out of the bathroom for "alone time" if she wants by locking the door. And just because you were invited into the living room doesn't mean you have direct access to the fridge or the dresser drawers like it does on other platforms.

Giacomino

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 14:24:33 +0100

about what you call the red minus icon

ex.: if a Nazi-racist includes your avatar/channel in your contact list it may seem that you have accepted the friendship.
Thus the red signal was created, to make it clear that friendship is not reciprocal. He can add you, but if you never add that person, the red signal remains.

craggers

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 14:53:26 +0100

Okay but I did not iniatiate the connection with @Antechinus . He did and I received a notice but I did not get to approve or reject the invitation. It was done automatically and I was surprised because I thought when you went to his profile I would see the button to either approve or not. I only noticed 2 days later he had been added as a connection. To be on the safe side, I guess I'll try to remove him on my Manage your Connections page.

Antechinus

Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:07:13 +0100

Oh, of course!
It's a connection-request pending confirmation.
I am a public fool

Thanks very much for clearing that up.

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Tue, 30 Oct 2018 00:27:10 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:24:02 +0100

Mike Macgirvin schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:49:11 +0100

For folks who are new to the inner sanctum of this project, let's start with a little background. I created the project. My goal was not to force my opinions or philosophy on anybody, but let them decide which direction the project should move and what it should accomplish. There aren't many policies or rules; and my goals have simply been to create software with transparency and ethics and try to perform many of the tasks which have traditionally been hard for decentralised networks and keeps them from competing with the centralised players. Communication is easy, privacy is hard. Big data is hard (directories, suggestions, etc.). Anyway I believe I've done more than most of my peers in these directions, but these accomplishments are difficult to describe to people who have always had them on centralised networks and aren't impressed at all. I've thrown in opinions here and there, but ultimately I always saw my role as a facilitator and an enthusiastic developer, not as a manager.

Many people secretly desire a pet programmer in the same ways that they desire a pet mechanic or handyman. They can let their superior mind come up with the ideas and they've got somebody to take their ideas and make them work. I've tried to oblige the demands of people who don't understand that I'm an old man, with a full time job, a full time farm, a family, and community obligations, as well as running an open source project. Last year the pressure nearly killed me. Literally. And if you push back on these people they go off in a huff about how the devs don't care about them. They're always threatening to leave because that is the only leverage they have. Eventually they do. The more you try to help, the more demands and threats that are put on you. And there's one of me and hundreds of them. This does not scale. At some point you have to turn your attention to something else, and this is when they make good on their threat to leave since they're no longer the center of attention. It's easy for them to do this because they actually have no "skin in the game". They aren't invested in the project in any significant way.

Anyway a year ago I quit. It was attitudes such as those presented in this thread which made me realise that open source has changed since I started creating open source projects nearly 40 years ago. It is no longer about communities working together.
Now the emphasis is on "free as in beer". If people have to work they don't want any part of it. They just want the software to magically create and debug itself.

There are *lots* of exceptions to these sweeping generalisations - so don't go picking at them for that reason, but it pretty much describes how the decision was made to fire myself from the project I created. In doing so this project has started to thrive and the open source process has started to really work. Coincidentally the same thing happened when I left the Friendica project to start working on new directions in decentralisation - e.g. what you're now looking at six years later.

It seems that my presence as a founder and somebody who tries to help "most of the time" actually prevents the open source process from working in some still unknown way. People get together and solve problems and work together when there's nobody left to blame. Since I was the person to blame, this prevented the projected from thriving. That's my theory anyway and it seems to hold true. Maybe I'm just a lousy boss, but there's not much I can do about that since I didn't even try to be a boss.

This community is still coming to grips with my departure in many ways. (I'm still in the background answering questions and fixing bugs that are really thorny; but I'm really not involved at all in the day to day running of the project). The best thing you can do to further your own agenda (whatever that is) is to stop being an outsider throwing rocks at the devs and become an actual part of the community and help the devs defend themselves against the rocks. This means rolling up your sleeves unfortunately. There are rocks coming from the corporate players (who infiltrate and try to cause conflict), there are rocks from other projects, and there are rocks coming from within the community when they don't get what they want. There's no shortage of rocks.

As far as devs doing what the community demands and not going off to do their own thing, good luck with that. Open source has never worked like that. There are occasionally 2-3 people who try to push a general project "agenda" (in their *free and volunteer* time) but the vast majority of developers submit hit and run patches to things that bother or interest them personally. If paychecks are involved, this dynamic changes. This lets a project manager have some leverage over developers. We've talked a lot over the last several years about creating a software co-op so that there are paychecks involved. If this idea appeals to you, step up to the plate and help make it happen.

Communication-Software

Bug?: Unintended change of "Full Name"-text-field-content in settings

🇩🇪🇬🇧 Matze (isle8.uber.space)

Fri, 12 Oct 2018 23:59:46 +0200 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:24:18 +0100

!Hubzilla Support Forum

When I go to "Channel settings"->"Basic Settings" the content of the "Full Name"-text-field gets changed from my current name to my email adress. If I press "submit", e.g. because I changed some other settings, my email adress becomes my channel name, which makes my email adress public, which I don't want. And of cause changing the text-field in the first place is a #bug.

Any ideas, how to fix this?
Thanks

#hubzilla

Update:
The problem seems to only appear in certain browsers:
- Falkon (QtWebEngine)
- Konqueror (WebKit)
But not in:
- Seamonkey (Mozilla Framework)

So it might be a problem with the browsers, but not necessarily.

#hubzilla #bug

Communication-Software